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The Cables forum is intended for those who believe cables make a difference in how their systems sound. If you do not believe in cables please do not post in any threads that are discussing specific cables or asking for help with cables, and limit your participation to threads where the OP intends to debate about cables. Posts which are argumentative, offensive, or break our rules may be deleted. Repeat offenders will be banned from posting in this forum.



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:50 am 
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And another cable discussion locked.

Is it possible to create a new section where people can discuss cables without all the snake oil backlash?
I really can't understand why people find the need to run in and cry BS in every single cable thread.
The "pretending to have a legitimate question" stuff from the same people needs to go as well.
It just ruins it for people who want to discuss these things, and drives people away.
There are a lot of people who don't even come here because of it.

It was better for awhile, but has gotten worse again. Its basically to the point where the completely unproductive snake oil comments need to be banned, or lets just scrap cable discussions altogether. Maybe that is what should be done. Just scrap it. Do we even have one single thread that hasn't been pooped on? Would make life easier for the mods who do this for free too. I actually can't believe they put up with this crap anymore.

The underhanded bickering, passive aggressive jabs at specific people, and troll cable threads are just getting gross.

And before I get backlash, yeah, I'm a dealer. But that is just a technicality. I'm not in here as a dealer, just forced to be. I just love chatting gear. Take a look at where I am. In the middle of nowhere. Doubt there is even 1 person in my immediate area in the forums. Me being in here is not for, and does not, generate me business.

And yes, I am done whining for now.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:07 am 
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Agreed in spades. There seems to have been a general change in tone over the last few months. Trolls just slagging others and not adding value. What to do? I am not sure, but it is aggravating to hear the rude, aggressive comments. Not sure there IS an answer other than have the mods remove negative comments that have no value to the discussion.

Back to topic; I agree that cables are an interesting topic and let's face it; cables affect each and every one of us, whether we are "converts" or not.

Dealers are enthusiasts as well, by the way. Thanks for contributing!


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:48 am 
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I believe there are a number of issues regarding threads about cables that seem to make it impossible to have a civil discussion. First, some people simply believe they cannot hear the differences that other people believe that they can. The jury is out as to why either is the case. From this beginning, it's clear that there is an "I'm right, you're wrong" mentality that is difficult to overcome. Second, the fact that you can spend anywhere from 50 cents to 50k on a set of cables sets up a "Those are ridiculously priced, therefore you are ridiculous" vs. "Just because you can't afford them, you're jealous and automatically discount them" kind of argument. This is also extremely difficult to overcome, because the two sides have a very different worldview. Finally, to me it seems there are definitely some snake oil pushers out there, not only with cables of course, but yeah...the explanations that some manufacturers come up with to explain the advantages of their particular offerings are sometimes absolutely astonishing, and so you can't blame some people for getting worked up about it.
More insidious in my opinion are those CAM members who continuously thread crap with inane and often truly insulting comments. I've long thought that there should be comment up and down voting, so that once a comment reaches a certain threshold it will be hidden from view for all. There's one particular member on CAM ,who will remain nameless, that I've had to add as a foe because his comments are consistently snide, useless and just generally rude and obnoxious. Why he (and several others) have not been permanently banned is beyond me. Perhaps he's had something useful to say in his several thousand comments, but the occurrence is rare at best.
Anyway, all it seems that we can do is continue trying to make those threads useful, if that's possible! :)
Byron
p.s. - I'm in Regina right now, but yeah, I'm not sure I'll make it all the way up to Davidson for this visit :)

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:07 am 
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Yes, absolutely. Add value !

mantisory wrote:
...all it seems that we can do is continue trying to make those threads useful, if that's possible! :)


-- 13 Dec 2017 12:15 --

The problem is with what people write. An algorithm can't police that, and a new section wouldn't make human policing easier.

Forbes_2 wrote:
And another cable discussion locked.

Is it possible to create a new section where people can discuss cables without all the snake oil backlash?


We do ask folks to read the CAM Forum Rules. Every moderator action is based on these, so if folks know them, they won't get into trouble.

BTW that other thread has been unlocked, now that I've had time to deal with the latest posts.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:47 am 
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Toby wrote:
Yes, absolutely. Add value !

mantisory wrote:
...all it seems that we can do is continue trying to make those threads useful, if that's possible! :)


-- 13 Dec 2017 12:15 --

The problem is with what people write. An algorithm can't police that, and a new section wouldn't make human policing easier.

Forbes_2 wrote:
And another cable discussion locked.

Is it possible to create a new section where people can discuss cables without all the snake oil backlash?


We do ask folks to read the CAM Forum Rules. Every moderator action is based on these, so if folks know them, they won't get into trouble.

BTW that other thread has been unlocked, now that I've had time to deal with the latest posts.


I don't know if its possible or if it would create a ton of work, but could a section like "cables" be given another level of membership -- in other words, just as I need to sign into CAM to post anything, the cable section could require members to join that section separately.

This would slow down the fly-off-the-handle posters and it would allow access to that section to be monitored from the start by simply not accepting entry to that part of the forum to known dissenters.

The 'attitude' problem is unfortunately prevalent on many forums -- its been going on for a long time but getting worse and worse.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:52 am 
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Toby wrote:
Yes, absolutely. Add value !

mantisory wrote:
...all it seems that we can do is continue trying to make those threads useful, if that's possible! :)


-- 13 Dec 2017 12:15 --

The problem is with what people write. An algorithm can't police that, and a new section wouldn't make human policing easier.

Forbes_2 wrote:
And another cable discussion locked.

Is it possible to create a new section where people can discuss cables without all the snake oil backlash?


We do ask folks to read the CAM Forum Rules. Every moderator action is based on these, so if folks know them, they won't get into trouble.

BTW that other thread has been unlocked, now that I've had time to deal with the latest posts.
The problem with the rules, is that the same people pretend to ask a question, that is really a full on troll. Or just say "prove it". Those don't break rules.

In having a separate section, I mean just straight up remove snake oil whining and kick the obvious trolls a few times till they quit.

90% of it is the same old people. And makes me very curious how many of them are smurfing.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:55 am 
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I have been trying cables for a while now. And I think they make a difference. And I would thank CAM for giving us all the opportunity to discuss these nuances and subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) differences among different cables. Despite all the common snake oil posts from the naysayers, there are tons of folks here who help guide us along the way.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:57 am 
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therealco wrote:
I have been trying cables for a while now. And I think they make a difference. And I would thank CAM for giving us all the opportunity to discuss these nuances and subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) differences among different cables. Despite all the common snake oil posts from the naysayers, there are tons of folks here who help guide us along the way.
The problem is, there are a lot more folks with vast experience with cables, that just won't set foot in here anymore.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:05 am 
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How about making a clear and concise statement at the start of a cable thread to egnore the dessenters and trolls and then stick to it. Eventually they'll get bored and give up. Besides, it's fun to frustrate such folks. :D

Truth is that by now, most of them are well known so you don't even have to read the post when the name pops up in a cable thread.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:44 am 
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KJT1 wrote:
How about making a clear and concise statement at the start of a cable thread to egnore the dessenters and trolls and then stick to it. Eventually they'll get bored and give up. Besides, it's fun to frustrate such folks. :D

Truth is that by now, most of them are well known so you don't even have to read the post when the name pops up in a cable thread.


The "ignore the trolls" advice worked so well one got elected President of the United States.

Second, newbies to the cable section won't know who the trolls are -- I certainly don't.

I think if you have to join a sub-forum (see above) then if someone starts trolling they can be banned from that part of the forum and that's that.

Healthy debate is healthy ... the insults and ridicule are defintely not.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:15 am 
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I have a simple but nice enough vintage set up and I will never have the money at this stage to invest in exotic cables. But I do like reading up on them and have made the first step of diy'ing a few interconnects.

My ears are damaged to the point of wearing hearing aids in both ears so while I might not hear the extreme subtleties that some are lucky enough to enjoy, I certainly want to elevate my system to the best I can within my budget. Including my cables. I do not understand why some people go out of there way to belittle others. The trolling of these subjects to the point where the mods have to lock them down does no one any good.

Perhaps once a thread gets locked, the combatants could be given some time off to rethink their reasons for being on CAM


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:35 pm 
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Rather than creating a separate section we've decided to consider that Cable discussions in the Cables forum are intended for those who believe cables make a difference in sound.

Debates about cables should only take place in clearly labeled threads where the OP intends to invite debate.

Anyone who doesn't believe in cables should refrain from posting in cable specific threads that aren't specifically set up for debate, and moderators will be banning repeat offenders from participating in this forum.


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