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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:34 pm 
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Location: burlington, ON, CA
Can everyone pitch in and share their experience and any information they find?
I hope this will become a resource and a future go-to for all members from new-ears who know not yet
how important this is to those who live and breathe this hobby and have for many years.
Thanks Everyone.

Wires for interconnect; gauge, length and ends.
Wire for Speaker; gauge, length and ends.
Mixing different metals and gauges’ + and – and return for lower, middle and upper registers
as well as CU, AG, ETC.

Ground loop; creation and solution!
Solid and stranded or both? Mixed or separate?
Plated or Un-plated? Teflon tube or Teflon coated? Cotton and Teflon tube?? Impregnation?
Crimping or solder? Pot or iron? What kind of solder?

Ends=sheath, tube, spades, XLR, gold, silver, copper or NONE? Body of connector-pin only or cast or machined?
Covering or no covering? Twisting, braiding, parallel, space between? Away from floor/wall/other wires?
Heat Shrink or not? Adhesive or 2:1, 3:1? Multiple layers? Colors? Brand?
How to prevent air from oxidizing and how many years before serious change of sound?

Length depending on ?
Shield? No Shield? Material?
Things like crèmes, sprays, polish, treatments, wiping, brushing and HOW OFTEN?
Reducing/eliminating static, guiding electrons in one direction.....

ALL.... maintenance.
What? Where? When? How? $$$? What happened? Result?

Three cheers to all.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:25 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:18 am
Posts: 304
Location: Etobicoke, ON, CA
Most or all of these 'topics' have been covered ad infinitum on CAM and hundreds of forums. If there is one thing about audiophiles is that everyone of us has an opinion on just about everything audio. If you would like answers for all your queries, I suggest you do your own research and decide for yourself how to go about making your own cables. There is a substantial investment in tools involved as well as the cost of materials which can really add up quickly making a DIY project an expensive learning experience.
Finally, and I don't mean to dampen your enthusiasm but.... there is always the distinct possibility that you build a cable that sounds like crap. This is because there is a lot of science and technology behind the manufacture of even cheap ICs and loudspeaker cables. Point in fact; it is cheaper to buy lower priced cables than to build ones of comparable quality. The economy of scale.

If you are still eager to DIY, I suggest you ascertain your requirements and then google Furutech for parts and helpful guides. I'm sure youtube has video on how to build your own cabling.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:03 pm 
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Location: hamilton, ON, CA
i would suggest mogami or canare as a diy interconnect widely used in professional audio and recording studios around the world very inexpensive to buy and easy to work with


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:08 am 
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Location: burlington, ON, CA
I thought having everything under one heading or subject might be helpful for new in the hobby and long time in the hobby.

For example-which model of Canare, Mogami, Van Damme, Van Den Hul, etc., and for Balanced? Unbalanced? XLR? XLR to RCA? Speaker or Interconnect? What lengths and so on, and on.

Another example-Tinned wire seems to be manufactured again by more manufacturers. Whats old is new again sure, but is it for cost reasons-re silver/gold or is it that it is a better conductive wire/cable that corrodes/tarnishes slower or because of what tinning does to allow for Teflon covering or does it allow for less static build up?

Since everything a wire does or does not do affects sound, should it not be known?


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:42 am 
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Paul McGowan <paul@psaudio.com>

Saving up

The best sounding cables I have heard were a bare set of wires. Hardly practical in the real world, cables without shielding and insulation sound better than those with them.

We insulate cables so their conductors don’t electrically touch each other. We shield them with tin foil or woven metal to protect them from noise.

None of these techniques of isolation and noise reduction improve sound quality. Air is the best insulator and a noise free environment what we hope for if we want to avoid shielding. Unfortunately, dangling conductors in the air is as impractical as hoping for a noise free environment. Insulation and shielding are necessary evils.

The problem with insulators is energy storage. When a signal is passed along the conductor they cover, small portions of the signal are stored then released in the insulation. This effect can be measured and enumerated using what’s known as the Dielectric Constant. If we’re building a capacitor we want that number high. If it’s a cable, the lower the number the better.

Of the readily available insulation materials, Teflon has one of the lowest dielectric constants—far lower than standard insulation. But Teflon’s expensive and hard to work with, which is why it’s used sparingly.

In our ongoing discussion of break-in, I suspect it is this dielectric constant that changes with signal.


Charging up

I hate it when I am wrong. Or miss something. But that’s life.

I don’t play music through an amplifier or preamplifier that’s burning in. The reason’s simple. What’s going on inside the amplifier is the forming of capacitors and the settling in of parts and circuit boards. Playing music hasn’t much impact on those changes. Running current through the system does.

This flies in the face of Audiophile lore that states: music played through electronics burns in faster than just being on. Not sure I buy that and have never found evidence to support it.

That said, the same isn’t true when we’re talking about an entire system. And that’s the point I have been missing. The key is not the individual electronics, but rather the connecting cabling.

Missed that.

Speaker cables, interconnects, and power cords need music playing through them to burn in. Of the many cables in a system, the most important seem to be the speaker cables. We know different types of insulation materials impact sound quality: Teflon, Polypropylene, Polystyrene, Mylar all sound different. And we also know that as AC signals pass through cables dielectrics change state.

Why would this matter? We know different types of insulation materials impact sound quality: Teflon, Polypropylene, Polystyrene, Mylar all sound different. And we also know that as AC signals passing through cable dielectrics change state—and sound different.

Many will say this is all BS. And that’s fine.

But there won’t be another show we attend without first burning in the cables with music.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:23 am 
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Location: Ingersoll, ON, CA
Have a look at the Zero- Va interconnect thread. A lot of good info.

_________________
He who is like the wind blowing from your pants.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:32 am 
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Location: London, ON, CA
mahatma1 wrote:
Have a look at the Zero- Va interconnect thread. A lot of good info.

Actually there is also a thread for a DIY speaker wire Son of Zero-Va as well.

:D :D ROVA :D :D


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:14 am 
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Location: burlington, ON, CA
Thank You Fellows.
I used the search engine in Canuck Audio but nothing specific came up.

Then I figured out through the search engine to go to Wires and Cables but there are 39 pages of threads mostly discussing wire and cable. This opened my mind to how much information is hidden inside Canuck Audio volume wise.

Then I thought I would use the internet Yahoo, Bing, whatever search engine and I found the thread you mentioned in record time. I just typed "Zero- Va interconnect thread" in the search engine. It did not come up in the Canuck Audio search engine that I could see but popped right up using the Internet search engine as follows:

viewtopic.php?t=10495

Moral of the story-seek and you shall find.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:00 am 
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Location: burlington, ON, CA
Very Interesting ROVA.

Zero- Va interconnect thread
May I ask if:
- the Teflon tape was regular thin for plumbing or the heavier pink type for gas connections?
-did you ever consider some type of oil to embed in the cotton to keep static type electrical energies more neutral?

I intend to use Teflon tubes with solid core silver and hope they work for me. The interconnects need plugs/ends and I am not sure I want to spend on silver XLR but do have good DH labs RCA and will not use ends for speaker cable. I will have to keep the bend radius in mind and mind not to move anything once hooked up due to potential fragility.

http://www.laventure.net/tourist/cables.htm
http://www.tempoelectric.com/index.html
http://stagersound.com/silver/
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue58/silver.htm
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/e ... ootout.htm

Should I port what I have to ROVA’s Site?


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:07 pm 
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Location: Cambridge, ON, CA
Duelund Dca12 or dca16 from partsconnexion.
You will have to spend an awful lot of $ to do better than that.


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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 3:08 pm 
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Location: London, ON, CA
speedy1 wrote:
Very Interesting ROVA.

Zero- Va interconnect thread
May I ask if:
- the Teflon tape was regular thin for plumbing or the heavier pink type for gas connections?
-did you ever consider some type of oil to embed in the cotton to keep static type electrical energies more neutral?

I intend to use Teflon tubes with solid core silver and hope they work for me. The interconnects need plugs/ends and I am not sure I want to spend on silver XLR but do have good DH labs RCA and will not use ends for speaker cable. I will have to keep the bend radius in mind and mind not to move anything once hooked up due to potential fragility.


Regarding Teflon tape it was just regular plumbing tape. One advantage of the thin tape is it can be stretched slightly while putting it on and that provides a little bit of tension that helps keep everything in place.

Haven't tried oil in the cotton. It might keep down static build up but what will it do to the dielectric constant? To me keeping the dielectric constant low was important.

Agree that silver wire should be a better way to go but it is expensive.

For your Teflon tubes I would suggest slightly over sized tubes. If the tubing is not tight fitting then the surface of the wire will only contact the Teflon in a few places (less surface area in contact wire to Teflon}. The rest of the wire surface will be in free air which is even a better dielectric condition. The trade off is if you make the tubes too big then handling them for wrapping and such is more of a problem.

Have fun. If you use the basic construction techniques I outlined, with the materials you mentioned, combined with a good quality connector I think you will be more than pleased with the results.

The only thing to watch for is if you try to use all the tricks of the trade on a system that has a tendency to be bright, or hot, on the high frequencies to begin with. Then the added capabilities of the interconnect can push the system over the edge. Remember your interconnects cannot really add anything to the sound it can only take away. Sometimes taking away a little bit of the high end can be a good thing for a bright system. If your system is neutral then you should be alright, you will hear everything that the source can provide.
:D :D ROVA :D :D


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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 6:22 am 
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Location: toronto, ON, CA
An interesting read:

http://conradhoffman.com/Low_Level_ICs.htm


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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 1:52 pm 
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Location: burlington, ON, CA
The Conrad-Hoffman paper is very interesting.

I believe Conductivity (UN-tarnished copper-which is conductive VS Tarnished copper-which apparently is not so conductive VS tarnished Silver-which is conductive.) is a biggie. Then if any ends are used (the body of RCA or XLR for example-is the body copper or brass or Silver or what? Then how are the ends and wire protected from becoming tarnished? Gold seems to be most popular. Silver may be the next most popular. There are nickel plated perhaps brass body ends attaching wires/cables as well and do these sound the same as a non tarnished highly conductive path?

Also becoming more popular is tinned copper wire as the tinning may slow down the tarnish, so it is about wire as well as connectors including how everything is attached. If any ends are used are they cold welded, or soldered or crimped or clamped?

Many use heat shrink tubing but are there any special lotions or potions or paste or caulking applied or injected at the cut ends to prevent air migrating inside the wire/cable to prevent tarnishing?

Van Den Hul use a special cable/wire covering designed to help slow down moisture and air and environmental contaminants from entering the cable/wire. Van Den Hul also have product with an extra heavy grade of silver covering to protect more in salt water and high moisture by ocean front areas or Florida in the summer.

Conductivity, Tarnish and Tarnish Prevention would be in my opinion the three biggest concerns. Perhaps the only concerns creating the largest difference in sound and then I think grounding and magnetic fields. How many have such a finely resolving system and in addition are using the best source to hear the absolute most their system has to offer? I think even a reasonable high fi system will benefit from good Conductivity, conductive Tarnish and Tarnish Prevention. A super resolving system will hear more faults or weakness in the chain due to a lower noise floor or a higher pitch noise due to a ground problem and so on.

Caught this off a thread about hum which may also help here:
https://centralindianaaes.files.wordpre ... s-v1-0.pdf
http://www.rane.com/note151.html


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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 4:22 pm 
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Location: toronto, ON, CA
It makes some interesting points, and raises another question.

First, the paper suggests that there is a threshold of error that has to be exceeded before we hear differences.
the paper described a real experiment to determine if the dielectric constant was responsible for sonic differences. (Apparently not even with what some might consider high distortion.h)

I applaud them for testing that, as most people bandy about conjectures as facts.

Which make one wonder why when casually comparing known cable changes by ear, the differences seem so very striking? That seems to point to something about the listener. It would be nice to be able to remove or quantify that factor, so that we could say something about the cables themselves...but I don't know how to do that.


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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 6:37 am 
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Bumpy wrote:
It makes some interesting points, and raises another question.

First, the paper suggests that there is a threshold of error that has to be exceeded before we hear differences.
the paper described a real experiment to determine if the dielectric constant was responsible for sonic differences. (Apparently not even with what some might consider high distortion.h)

I applaud them for testing that, as most people bandy about conjectures as facts.

Which make one wonder why when casually comparing known cable changes by ear, the differences seem so very striking? That seems to point to something about the listener. It would be nice to be able to remove or quantify that factor, so that we could say something about the cables themselves...but I don't know how to do that.


That is the question then isn't it. Why do we apparently hear differences but so far any method used to measure such changes come up short. There are many out there that use the fact that measurements do not show differences to support their position that there is no different. Some will tell you that it doesn't matter what cables you use (as long as they are of reasonable quality) they all sound the same. (Once upon a time I firmly held the opinion that any reasonable built interconnect would be just as good as the exotic ones.) I have no doubt that to those people, for what ever reason, they do sound the same. However, from experience I can say with certainty that they do not all sound the same to me.

Yes, I am aware that our ears can be tricked and that our memory with respect to sound can be suspect but I'm talking about carefully observed changes over time. I'm not talking about listening to one cable once, change, and then listen to the next cable once (although that can also be revealing). I'm talking about living with a cable for a couple of weeks (at least) while listening to our regular, favourite material and then change to another for a couple of weeks at least . And then back a forth a couple of more times on the same pair.

I think many of the theories put forward for cables sounding different are valid, at least in part. However, somehow we just don't have a good picture of how all the possible bits and pieces of various measured characteristics go together to explain what we hear. That does not mean we don't hear them though!

So for those of you who can't hear the difference and are happy with what you have .... great!
For those of you who do hear the differences then I do recommend keeping a critical mind about you and trust what you hear (long term). To be sure there are overpriced snake oil type solutions out there, but there are also some fine products based on sound principles at reasonable prices.

In the end go with what sounds good to you but stop putting others down for what they do hear, think they hear, or do not hear. Just enjoy this great hobby (obsession?).
:D :D ROVA :D :D


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