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 Post subject: Re: Speaker Cables
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:18 pm 
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The benefits of bi-wiring is dependent on the speaker and how the cross-over is employed. I know of one speaker manufacture who does not believe in bi-wiring, but due to customer demands, added a second set of binding posts that terminated with the fist pair just inside the speaker.


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 Post subject: Re: Speaker Cables
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:55 pm 
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This is a good read

http://www.sonicdesign.se/biwire.html

I found this article when I was doing some research about bi-wiring. I am using two run of the same cable, same length with my current setup. Yes, it affect the sound and I'm liking the result. But the result could be that I removed the cheap brass jumpers on the speakers. But heck, I found a good deal for a second set of the QED cables that I'm using, may be getting a set of the QED jumper is the same cost.


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 Post subject: Re: Speaker Cables
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:06 pm 
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rustee wrote:
Prosoundman wrote:
I would hesitate to say "it's only wire". It's the 'wire' that separates the pretty good from the exceptional.

J.


Yet it is all "wire", although technically I suppose it's cable. Which wire, well that's a whole other can of worms...



It's not all wire out there....;)

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 Post subject: Re: Speaker Cables
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:28 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Speaker Cables
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:18 pm 
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wtf22 wrote:
Just curious about this. If you use a copper jumper, even oxygen free copper and then coat the ends or the whole thing with silver solder, does it now become a high quality jumper? Anyone tried this?


Silver solder has only 3% to 5% silver.

IMO "tining" (coating with solder) wire ends reduces sonic quality.

Suggest coating exposed ends with dielectric grease instead.


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 Post subject: Re: Speaker Cables
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:33 pm 
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Uunderhill wrote:
wtf22 wrote:
Just curious about this. If you use a copper jumper, even oxygen free copper and then coat the ends or the whole thing with silver solder, does it now become a high quality jumper? Anyone tried this?


Silver solder has only 3% to 5% silver.

IMO "tining" (coating with solder) wire ends reduces sonic quality.

Suggest coating exposed ends with dielectric grease instead.


Excellent point Uunderhill which, still to this day, most people just do not want to understand.

Tinning copper wire with so-called silver solder is NOT the same thing as silver plating copper wire. Solder was never meant to be an electrical conductor; it has always been meant to re-enforce and consolidate an existing solid mechanical connection.


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 Post subject: Re: Speaker Cables
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:42 pm 
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dcrooks wrote:
The theory behind bi-wireing has a certain amount of logic... A woofer can generate electricity, in the same way it uses it. So when a bass note is decaying, the woofer becomes a generator, and the amp has to absorb that power. This is where the concept of an amplifiers damping factor comes from. It's the ratio of the amplifiers output impedance to a nominal 8 ohm speaker impedance.

The idea of bi-wiring is that you don't want that woofer generated voltage driving the tweeter, you want it to be absorbed by the amplifier, so separate wires back to the amp.

So that's the theory, now you have to decide if it's a crock, or if it makes an audible difference! I'm not certain it does, but I know people that swear it helps. Like so much in this hobby, you have try it and listen for yourself!

Cheers, Dave


That would be true only in a biamp configuration, biwiring only extends the effective length of your jumper and therefore cannot isolate back EMF from the HP circuit.


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 Post subject: Re: Speaker Cables
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:49 am 
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chevyguy wrote:
Is there any day difference between runnning bi-wire speaker cable vs a single run with jumpers?


It all depends on the cables that you're using as some expensive cables can be more revealing than others. Case in point, I found that by using the Nordost Valhalla jumper cables the sound of the highs was more open than the normal jumper and or bi-wire cables.

Right now, my speakers wiring config is comprise of Transparent Audio Ultra speakers cables wired crisscrossed on lows and highs coupled with Nordost Vahalla jumper cables.


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 Post subject: Re: Speaker Cables
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:49 pm 
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Thanks for the clarification about silver solder. On another note, I have read that rhodium is a very poor conductor and is used in the jewellery biz for it's attractive reflective properties. Having said that, I have a set of Cardas rhodium plated banana plugs that seem to work well. So is rhodium used as a plating on audio connectors for it's attractiveness or is there some sonic advantage.


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 Post subject: Re: Speaker Cables
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:58 pm 
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Michael F wrote:
dcrooks wrote:
A woofer can generate electricity, in the same way it uses it. So when a bass note is decaying, the woofer becomes a generator, and the amp has to absorb that power. This is where the concept of an amplifiers damping factor comes from. It's the ratio of the amplifiers output impedance to a nominal 8 ohm speaker impedance.

The idea of bi-wiring is that you don't want that woofer generated voltage driving the tweeter, you want it to be absorbed by the amplifier, so separate wires back to the amp.


That would be true only in a biamp configuration, biwiring only extends the effective length of your jumper and therefore cannot isolate back EMF from the HP circuit.


Partially true, however the output impedance of most amps is significantly less than the resistance of the speaker cables & tweeter crossover, so more of the back EMF would be absorbed by the amp in a biwire circuit.

I agree though, that biamplifying is significantly better for a variety of reasons, although at much higher cost!


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 Post subject: Re: Speaker Cables
PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:17 pm 
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An interesting read. In a bi-wire setup how do the electrons know which wire to follow when leaving the amp? Both wires are attached to the same binding post at the amp.


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 Post subject: Re: Speaker Cables
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 4:46 am 
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HatMan wrote:
An interesting read. In a bi-wire setup how do the electrons know which wire to follow when leaving the amp? Both wires are attached to the same binding post at the amp.


They don't know, they all go. There's a big tough bouncer guy at the entrance of each speaker who decides which electrons can pass through and who has to wait outside the club.


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 Post subject: Re: Speaker Cables
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 5:15 am 
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bleepedy bloops wrote:
HatMan wrote:
An interesting read. In a bi-wire setup how do the electrons know which wire to follow when leaving the amp? Both wires are attached to the same binding post at the amp.


They don't know, they all go. There's a big tough bouncer guy at the entrance of each speaker who decides which electrons can pass through and who has to wait outside the club.


I love your bouncer analogy, but to properly complete the bi-wire analogy, you need to expand on the club entrance BEFORE the bouncer. Think of your club having 2 entranceway doors; one quite narrow, the other one much wider. Only the skinny bitches can squeeze through the narrow door, so no need or a bouncer there to keep out the normal and bigger sized people, and there is nothing preventing you from having one there, but at your wider doorway, you still need a bouncer to keep the undesirable skinny bitches out and be selective about who else gets in.

That is what bi-wiring is all about. You still need a passive crossover (bouncer) at the doorway but if you use a wire that favors the high frequencies (skinny bitches in our example) and a second wire that favors bigger people, but still allows anyone smaller to get in, that takes the load off the HF bouncer yet still leaves most of the work for the LF bouncer. With a single wire situation, everyone has to squeeze through that 1 doorway before having to deal with the bouncer.


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 Post subject: Re: Speaker Cables
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 5:30 am 
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OBI56 wrote:
bleepedy bloops wrote:
HatMan wrote:
An interesting read. In a bi-wire setup how do the electrons know which wire to follow when leaving the amp? Both wires are attached to the same binding post at the amp.


They don't know, they all go. There's a big tough bouncer guy at the entrance of each speaker who decides which electrons can pass through and who has to wait outside the club.


I love your bouncer analogy, but to properly complete the bi-wire analogy, you need to expand on the club entrance BEFORE the bouncer. Think of your club having 2 entranceway doors; one quite narrow, the other one much wider. Only the skinny bitches can squeeze through the narrow door, so no need or a bouncer there to keep out the normal and bigger sized people, and there is nothing preventing you from having one there, but at your wider doorway, you still need a bouncer to keep the undesirable skinny bitches out and be selective about who else gets in.

That is what bi-wiring is all about. You still need a passive crossover (bouncer) at the doorway but if you use a wire that favors the high frequencies (skinny bitches in our example) and a second wire that favors bigger people, but still allows anyone smaller to get in, that takes the load off the HF bouncer yet still leaves most of the work for the LF bouncer. With a single wire situation, everyone has to squeeze through that 1 doorway before having to deal with the bouncer.


You explained it much better than I did, congrats.


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 Post subject: Re: Speaker Cables
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 6:21 am 
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In the end the 2 are connected to a common point either a few inch's from the speaker or a few feet at the speed electricity travels there be no difference
I do however agree that the factory brass jumpers should be switched for better ones
Bi-wire = Buy more wire

Bi or tri amping is completely another story


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