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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 5:35 am 
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Finding the right cable is like mining for gold when you've never seen gold, taken a geology course, gone prospecting, read a book on minerals or looked hard at a rock. OK, maybe you've looked hard at a rock.

The indications on the cable are one chunk of data, useful but not complete. Price is another, oddly enough. To pursue the gold-hunting analogy, you don't want to spend more on the dig than you can get for what you find. The opinions of others are another data chunk, and there are some you take with a lot of salt and others you take straight. And then there are your own trials, and what you get out of them. It may take years to find what you think you like, especially if you've got a day job.

I like the experimental aspect of this hobby. Wherever you're able to grant some goodwill -- a dealer, a pal, a reviewer, an engineer -- you can follow their guidance and see what works for you.

Serenity_now wrote:
gnickers wrote:
I unplugged one of my unbranded power cords and here is what is printed on the cord:

3 x 2.08mm
14awg
300v
rated for 105 degrees C

another cord was rated for 60 degrees C. Does anyone else have this kind of data on their cord or on a spec sheet that came with the power cord? How useful is this data in evaluating the construction of a cord?


That data is very useful and in fact required by code. You can find more info in tables 2 and 19 in the CEC. These numbers reflect ampacity and cable duty rating. Assuming these criteria are met for the load and intended use, as yours are, there is no benefit to "upgrading" the cable further.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 7:32 am 
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milesian wrote:
Big fat cables look better in my system. If I had cheap little black power cables it wouldn't look half as good.


The most logical reason I've ever read on this subject. :wink:

In truth there is esthetic value to a lot of stuff in audio, that can definitely stoke ones ego, and I would never begrudge anyone for wanting good looking gear. Just don't tell me it does something it physically can't do.
I just bought a McIntosh pre-amp for that reason alone. I love the Mac look and even knowing it was mostly a Marantz inside I still bucked up for the faceplate.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:15 am 
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rnrgagne wrote:
milesian wrote:
Big fat cables look better in my system. If I had cheap little black power cables it wouldn't look half as good.


The most logical reason I've ever read on this subject. :wink:

In truth there is esthetic value to a lot of stuff in audio, that can definitely stoke ones ego, and I would never begrudge anyone for wanting good looking gear. Just don't tell me it does something it physically can't do.
I just bought a McIntosh pre-amp for that reason alone. I love the Mac look and even knowing it was mostly a Marantz inside I still bucked up for the faceplate.


If you like the aesthetic looks on some speaker cables, you'll going to like these and on top of that they do sound good while looking good. Just replaced my old trusted MIT MH 770 twin terminators speaker cables with them.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:19 am 
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Toby wrote:
Finding the right cable is like mining for gold when you've never seen gold, taken a geology course, gone prospecting, read a book on minerals or looked hard at a rock. OK, maybe you've looked hard at a rock.

The indications on the cable are one chunk of data, useful but not complete. Price is another, oddly enough. To pursue the gold-hunting analogy, you don't want to spend more on the dig than you can get for what you find. The opinions of others are another data chunk, and there are some you take with a lot of salt and others you take straight. And then there are your own trials, and what you get out of them. It may take years to find what you think you like, especially if you've got a day job.

I like the experimental aspect of this hobby. Wherever you're able to grant some goodwill -- a dealer, a pal, a reviewer, an engineer -- you can follow their guidance and see what works for you.



And the problem with the internet is that you might get a 100 suggestions on which cable to use. Then there are the nay sayers that demand proof(over the internet no less!) or suggest you're wasting your money(like it's their business what one does with his coin).
I don't know why people get such a hate on for something they don't care for. When I notice a thread with a topic I don't care for or believe in, 9 times out of ten I ignore it. Some people seek them out and then repeat themselves on every page instead of simply posting their thoughts and then moving on.

I've had good luck with cabling brands, my challenge has been with speakers because I visit the show rooms so little.

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Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:39 pm 
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stugazz wrote:
ok I have a direct run of 12/2 romex electrical wire running from my electrical panel to my audio designated wall receptacle, ok very basic... now introduce a 300/500$ power cord to power-up my amp???? what sense does that make ??? unless I'm missing something the wire running from my panel to the receptacle is basic 12/2 wire how is a 3 foot 500$ power cable going to improve the sound of my amp???


What sense does it make? None. Other that men like jewelry too ;-)

-- 09 Jun 2017 23:47 --

Teo Audio wrote:
For your consideration:

It is also a psychology issue, where generally, the detractors will make a mighty fuss (bull in a china shop mentality), and those who believe and understand that power cables and the like make a difference, those folks will generally be more quiet and accepting of others opinions.

The bulk of the people who think and know that "cables make a big difference, and that includes power cables', they are more easy going, overall. Quiet. Not interested in debate or argument on the subject. No point, as they understand.

What this says, appearance wise ...in these sort of threads....is that the detractor vs proponent numbers, or percentages, is stilted toward the more vociferous detractors, when the opposite --is the true state of affairs.

To reiterate, cable detractors think they can hold their own in an argument about veracity of cables and audibility of such.

When the opposite is true, as 75%-85%...or more... of the people who know these things make a difference, are never going to show up in this thread, or any other like it.

This set of observations, brings down to reality... the fact that cable detractors are a TINY minority of the audio crowd. TINY.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:08 pm 
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The bulk of the people who think and know that "cables make a big difference, and that includes power cables', they are more easy going, overall. Quiet.


You are absolutely correct. It is psychological. People who purchase expensive cables will never admit that they purchased jewelry with no scientific proof of sonic improvements. Nobody likes to admit that they have been taken. Human nature. Nough said.
P.S. those very few (with very high end system and almost superhuman hearing) "might" hear a difference... the coloration of the new cable.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:18 pm 
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Real Audio Professionals with technical education and that understand electron flow & ohms law - know marketing "whowe" BS hype - its only the small hi end audio folks that believe the silly ness


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:22 pm 
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alladione wrote:
Real Audio Professionals with technical education and that understand electron flow & ohms law - know marketing "whowe" BS hype - its only the small hi end audio folks that believe the silly ness


Thank you, it's refreshing to hear a voice of reason once in a while....


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:21 pm 
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Bandy wrote:
alladione wrote:
Real Audio Professionals with technical education and that understand electron flow & ohms law - know marketing "whowe" BS hype - its only the small hi end audio folks that believe the silly ness


Thank you, it's refreshing to hear a voice of reason once in a while....



If I were to buy a audio component based on perfect bench/laboratory test performance, or based on opinion of someone with technical educational background, I would be one unhappy owner of some low-fi stereo. I buy everything based on sound quality, including cables.

Nothing wrong if you do not hear cables making any difference in sound quality. I do, but I would not spend some insane amount for a 0.5 meter cable, not matter how good it is.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:26 pm 
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14/3 Romex wire from the panel to the receptacle, cheap 16 gauge or smaller wire from the female iec on the back of the amp to the toroidal transformer, and 3' of vacuum cleaner hose sized power cable between the two is going to make a sonic difference? Nope, not ever. However, cheap plug ends can cause a problem, tight connections are important. Arcing is never a good thing.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:54 pm 
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I am shocked at how smart rational audiophiles can defend such obvious foolishness - your human ears are not that good, dogs can hear better - every piece of music that you buy is processed beyond belief with equalisers, compressors ,audio processors,limiters, etc - educated professionals do not fall for this cable crap.
14/3 Romex and #16 AWG wire but 3ft of $750.00 cable in between is going to make and incredible difference !!!

The profit margin on some of these cables is 500% or more


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:47 pm 
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alladione wrote:
I am shocked at how smart rational audiophiles can defend such obvious foolishness - your human ears are not that good, dogs can hear better - every piece of music that you buy is processed beyond belief with equalisers, compressors ,audio processors,limiters, etc - educated professionals do not fall for this cable crap.


You won't necessarily , hear a big difference between a high and poor quality cable. However, with a higher quality cable, you would enjoy music more, music will pull you in and keep you focus.
On the other hand, a poor quality cable, you will lose interest in music in a very short time and start to think about "that painting on the wall", or "need of a new coffee table".


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:58 pm 
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Is it heresy to suggest that anyone who cannot hear the benefits of properly designed and manufactured power cables don't have systems good enough to reveal the differences; or, who have damaged hearing for a variety of reasons; or, have never chosen a truly competent cable to test; or, who are so hung up with their ideas of truth that they aren't willing to entertain a new idea; or, who can't bear the thought of ridicule when they can't scientifically provide a cogent explanation for their pricey purchase; or, who are afraid of the wife disapproval factor; or, who can't fathom that their scientific explanations are not explanations at all, nor scientific at all. The saying "a little knowledge is dangerous" would have to search far and wide to find a topic that proved the value of this common sense saying more effectively. Remember the fox who said the grapes he could not reach were probably sour anyways. Yes, hearing is psychological, but not nearly as psychological as an opinionated audiophile. Making up your mind when you don't have all the facts is a bad idea, especially when you don't know how to recognize the pertinent facts to begin with. Anyone who has studied electronics should recognize that Ohm's Law does not describe everything electrical - it's just the beginning. If you can't get past Ohm's Law you haven't gotten very far and you need to recognize that fact. People who simply say give it a try and a fair chance are open minded. The rest are creating a lot of dust following the ever mind numbing illusions of the preverbal circular argument. If you don't know what a circular argument is, I would strongly recommend you put forth your best effort as it could change every aspect of your life for the better, forever. Give it a shot.

I can say in all honesty that I have been auditioning and buying Shunyata power cables for almost a decade and, without fail, have found significant improvement to my system's sound every single time I swapped in every cable. I'm not willing to pay any more than I have to to achieve the sound I desire. As my mother often said: "I'm Scotch, and I'm not going to pay a penny more than is necessary"; neither am I going to waste my time engaging in closed minded thought, other than to debunk it. The negative claims regarding power cables use the same (lack of) logic as the claims that MP3 technology is as good as CD and vinyl. We can't be held back by those who can't see the light, as it were. The idea is to soar, not be afraid to look to the sky. Cheers!


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:30 pm 
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I have concluded, in a wishy washy way, after trying a few mid priced power cables ($300) that it depends on the resolution of your system (maybe). I couldn't really hear a difference, at least not an appreciable one. My system is entry to mid level hifi I suppose. Perhaps with an ultra high resolution system it would be more noticeable, but I don't know. All of my electronics now have captive power cords (restored gear from the 80's), so I have no choice in the matter - which I like - makes life easier.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:11 am 
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TwentyKHzPlus wrote:
Is it heresy to suggest that anyone who cannot hear the benefits of properly designed and manufactured power cables don't have systems good enough to reveal the differences; or, who have damaged hearing for a variety of reasons; or, have never chosen a truly competent cable to test; or, who are so hung up with their ideas of truth that they aren't willing to entertain a new idea; or, who can't bear the thought of ridicule when they can't scientifically provide a cogent explanation for their pricey purchase; or, who are afraid of the wife disapproval factor; or, who can't fathom that their scientific explanations are not explanations at all, nor scientific at all. The saying "a little knowledge is dangerous" would have to search far and wide to find a topic that proved the value of this common sense saying more effectively. Remember the fox who said the grapes he could not reach were probably sour anyways. Yes, hearing is psychological, but not nearly as psychological as an opinionated audiophile. Making up your mind when you don't have all the facts is a bad idea, especially when you don't know how to recognize the pertinent facts to begin with. Anyone who has studied electronics should recognize that Ohm's Law does not describe everything electrical - it's just the beginning. If you can't get past Ohm's Law you haven't gotten very far and you need to recognize that fact. People who simply say give it a try and a fair chance are open minded. The rest are creating a lot of dust following the ever mind numbing illusions of the preverbal circular argument. If you don't know what a circular argument is, I would strongly recommend you put forth your best effort as it could change every aspect of your life for the better, forever. Give it a shot.

I can say in all honesty that I have been auditioning and buying Shunyata power cables for almost a decade and, without fail, have found significant improvement to my system's sound every single time I swapped in every cable. I'm not willing to pay any more than I have to to achieve the sound I desire. As my mother often said: "I'm Scotch, and I'm not going to pay a penny more than is necessary"; neither am I going to waste my time engaging in closed minded thought, other than to debunk it. The negative claims regarding power cables use the same (lack of) logic as the claims that MP3 technology is as good as CD and vinyl. We can't be held back by those who can't see the light, as it were. The idea is to soar, not be afraid to look to the sky. Cheers!


Hi, TwentyKHzPlus, I am sorry, I can't hear you. Due to my age, anything above 16kHz is just silence to me. :-)

"Anyone who has studied electronics should recognize that Ohm's Law does not describe everything electrical"

Actually, Ohm's Law does describe "everything" electrical. Perhaps what you meant to say is that it does not describe anything non-electrical? Like emotions, feelings, beliefs?

"The negative claims regarding power cables use the same (lack of) logic as the claims that MP3 technology is as good as CD and vinyl."

On the contrary, I believe most folks that are sceptical about benefits of power cables (like me) have at least elemental knowledge of electronics. (or university degree in electronics) :-)
Comparing power cables to MP3s is illogical at best, since we can quantify the losses in MP3 compression unlike the "benefits" of power cables.

"The idea is to soar, not be afraid to look to the sky. Cheers!" Perhaps your idea.

I prefer "Better audio through technology". Cheers.


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