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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:19 am 
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Location: London, ON, CA
If I were to upgrade from the Wyred 4 Sound DAC 1 to a DAC 2 (or higher) what changes would I expect to hear? I have heard a couple of people comment on how smooth their DAC 2 sounds. That makes me a little nervous. Smooth is not bad but it can also be a comment heard when the high end is not so clear or when transient details are a little rounded off.

Background

Right now I have the SimAudio 300D version 1 and the Wyred 4 Sound DAC 1. I like both, but ideally would like a blend of some of the sound features.

The SimAudio is very detailed and precise, especially in the high end. Maybe a little bit too bright in the mid to upper high frequencies. However the bass end is extremely tight if not a little anemic. These characteristics deliver a very life like transient response, which I really do like.

On the other hand the Wyred 4 Sound unit has a very deep and strong (but not soft) low end. The sound stage is as wide as the SimAudio if not a little bit bigger. However, the instrument positioning and separation might not be as good as the SimAudio unit. Also the high end is not as open and airy as I would like. The high end is certainly present and not bad but just not as clear and clean as I would like. Having said all that about the Wyred 4 Sound unit I favour it over all. It reminds me more of the sound I use to have back in the vinyl days.

Bottom line would moving up in the Wyred 4 Sound line bring me closer to what I want or do I need to look elsewhere?

:D :D ROVA :D :D


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:29 pm 
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Rova wrote:
If I were to upgrade from the Wyred 4 Sound DAC 1 to a DAC 2 (or higher) what changes would I expect to hear? I have heard a couple of people comment on how smooth their DAC 2 sounds. That makes me a little nervous. Smooth is not bad but it can also be a comment heard when the high end is not so clear or when transient details are a little rounded off.

Background

Right now I have the SimAudio 300D version 1 and the Wyred 4 Sound DAC 1. I like both, but ideally would like a blend of some of the sound features.

The SimAudio is very detailed and precise, especially in the high end. Maybe a little bit too bright in the mid to upper high frequencies. However the bass end is extremely tight if not a little anemic. These characteristics deliver a very life like transient response, which I really do like.

On the other hand the Wyred 4 Sound unit has a very deep and strong (but not soft) low end. The sound stage is as wide as the SimAudio if not a little bit bigger. However, the instrument positioning and separation might not be as good as the SimAudio unit. Also the high end is not as open and airy as I would like. The high end is certainly present and not bad but just not as clear and clean as I would like. Having said all that about the Wyred 4 Sound unit I favour it over all. It reminds me more of the sound I use to have back in the vinyl days.

Bottom line would moving up in the Wyred 4 Sound line bring me closer to what I want or do I need to look elsewhere?

:D :D ROVA :D :D


I have no experience with the Sim unit but the have had the Dac1, Dac2, Dac2dsdsefemto ..... infact the Femto is still in the rotation on my main rig

The femto is by all accounts a far superior machine in every measure both literally and subjectively than the dac1 ..... that said the dac2dsdse or better will tell you ruthlessly what is in front of it , good or bad recording it will tell it exactly how it is. And as good as it is it's not particularly cheap so if you like the the general demeanour of the dac1 be sure that the dac2dsdse does that much better. There is a lot of selection in that price point

I have found that my Calyx Femto , also a sabre dac , is a jump up again . Most likely due to the attention of the power supply ... but , it doesn't do dsd . Point being that the Femto is significantly more money and that's what I found it took to better the dac2dsdse Femto .

If you like a dac that does not editorialize and tells the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth the dac2dsdse is an amazing value


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:05 pm 
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to OP....only you can tell us...if you need to upgrade something on your set up, do it and then tell us what have you found...


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:18 pm 
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I never had the DAC1 but I went from DAC2 to DSDSE Femto and I'm not looking back. The improvement is not subtle. Better details, overall better sound and more real. DAC2 was already very good but DSDSE Femto is another level.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:02 am 
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Location: Waterloo, ON, CA
I had the original DAC2 and traded it in on the original DAC2 DSDse (prior to the femto upgrade). There is a very long thread on Computer Audiophile on the DSDse upgrade https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/15953-wyred-4-sound-dac2se-upgrade-revisited-amp-findings-the-best-decision-unequivocally/.

Going from the DAC2 to the DAC2 DSDse was well worth it in my opinion, so moving from a DAC1 to DSDse femto would likely be a significant upgrade for you.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:16 am 
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is that improvement present on *all* source formats?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:48 am 
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Bumpy wrote:
is that improvement present on *all* source formats?


Yes.... but

It is even more capable of showing you how crappy your recordings are and rewarding you on the good to great recordings...:

I think that is just what most well implemented sabre dacs do though , if you want a dac that hides these recordings this is not likely it... but on good recording , red book and up you will be very happy... just remember a crappy recording doesn't get better just be cause it's in 24/192 or some version of dsd crappy is crappy


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:01 am 
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I get that a crappy recording can happen in any format, but was concerned that only DSD formats showed the big improvement.

Thanks.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:06 am 
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Not really. I got improvement on all formats going to Femto clock. In fact after moving to Femto clock I turned off all upsampling including DSD upsampling and am enjoying the pure, nothing added sound of the source.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:11 am 
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Bumpy wrote:
I get that a crappy recording can happen in any format, but was concerned that only DSD formats showed the big improvement.

Thanks.


Most of the SE improvements were in parts quality that would improve any format (better resistors, diodes, clocks, etc.).

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:32 am 
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Interesting. Do you think that could be done by anyone or are the boards fitted with exclusively SMT components?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:54 am 
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Great information so far, thank you. From what has been said I would expect the DAC 2 to be a little better than the DAC 1 but maybe not a huge change. However, if you go up to the 2 DSD SE things are a lot better. And it seems the Femto option is a whole other step. This is good to know and useful. Can anyone put into words what the changes are? Image size, image depth, bass, high end, clarity, separation of instruments? For those steps up that you experienced a positive change what was it that improved?

Regarding improvements in other parts of my system, yes that is possible but from what I've experienced so far what I have seems very balanced, neutral and revealing so that any changes in the front end of the system can easily change the sound of the whole system. I have Alon V mark IIs as my speaker, SimAudio W-5 as amplifier. Copland CA 301 as preamp and I use a SimAudio Equinox as my CD player / and now as my transport since using a DAC.

:D :D ROVA :D :D


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:57 am 
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Rova wrote:
Alon V mark IIs as my speaker, SimAudio W-5 as amplifier. Copland CA 301 as preamp and I use a SimAudio Equinox as my CD player / and now as my transport since using a DAC.


Nice system!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:52 am 
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Bumpy wrote:
Interesting. Do you think that could be done by anyone or are the boards fitted with exclusively SMT components?


I have not heard of anyone doing this mod themselves. I don't know if it's possible to DIY but somehow doubt it.

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